Francesca: This is Francesca from the Smart Growth Rocket Podcast by topclassedge.com. More people than ever are making big leaps to their goals, carving their own paths, and being really successful in the process. And on this show, I talked to these bright, shiny successful professionals and entrepreneurs to discuss the ideas, the opportunities and the strategies they’re taking advantage of, so we can all be happier and wealthier. All right, everyone, so I am very excited to introduce you all to Falisha Karpati. Falisha is an inclusion consultant with a background in neuroscience, specializing in working in academic and research organizations. So let’s dive right into our questions. Falisha, what inspired your work as an inclusion consultant?
Falisha: Ever since I was little, I was really fascinated with why people act the way that they do, and especially why people can have such different thoughts and behaviours related to being in exactly the same situation. Why is bungee jumping a passion for some people but a total nightmare for others? And why do some people wanna be chefs and others wanna be writers and others wanna be dancers?
Differences in ways of being and ways of thinking were something that I was always noticing and curious about. And then that was furthered by my early school experiences. So I was identified as gifted early on in my studies and that meant that’s how I learned and what was interesting for me was noticeably different from most of my peers. And throughout my schooling, there were different strategies implemented by very well-intentioned teachers. And some of these strategies really helped me feel included in the class, like keeping some extra work at my desk to do if I finish something early. But there were other actions that really drew attention to the difference and made me feel excluded and separated from the class, like being physically taken out of the room to do something else.
This made me aware really early on that people think differently and work differently. And also that a sense of inclusion can be built and supported with intentional action by people who are in leadership positions and by peers. So this acknowledgement of my own and others’ differences and how these were supported or not, that continued throughout my education into my graduate studies as well as into my career. And now I’ve been finding that the autonomy that comes with being an independent self-employed consultant really fits well with the way that my brain works compared to a traditional nine-to-five office job, which doesn’t fit as well with how my brain works.
So that’s the brain side of how I got into this type of work but my work is multidimensional and I integrate considerations of cognitive and brain diversity in close connection with facilitating equity for people of all identities and backgrounds across gender, race, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, age, and more. Because space can only be fully inclusive if it considers all aspects of humans from brains to bodies and beyond. And as a Jewish person myself, I’ve experienced and witnessed harmful acts, stereotypes, and barriers based on religion and culture. And as a woman in science, I’ve worked in systems that are built in a way that creates inequities in opportunities and access. I’m driven by the belief that we as a collective society will only be able to do our best teaching, do our best research, and make the most meaningful advancements in the world as a whole if people of all identities, all brains and all backgrounds are supported to contribute their strengths and that’s what I work towards every day.
Francesca: Amazing! Thank you so much for sharing. So tell us a little bit about the code (C.O.D.E) to inclusion.
Falisha: Code stands for Cognitive, Demographic and Experiential diversity. Cognitive diversity means differences in how our brains take in and process information, which impacts how we learn, remember, focus, solve problems, make decisions, and interact with others. Demographic diversity refers to identities across age, disability, gender, indigeneity, nationality, race, religion, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, and much more. Experiential diversity refers to how we’ve each had a unique set of experiences through our work, school, family and community, where we’ve lived and travelled through any trauma and hardships and more. And these areas of diversity cognitive, demographic, and experiential all intersect with each other. So for example, demographics can impact what experiences someone has access to and how they’re treated in different spaces. Cognitive diversity can impact what types of school and work experiences someone might seek out based on their interest. And demographic diversity can also impact cognition and how our brains work. For example, if a student is directed towards certain types of learning activities like classes or hobbies because of their sex assigned at birth or gender identity.
So when we bring a group together that is demographically diverse, we also generally bring together different experiences, different learning paths, and different approaches and perspectives. And these are just a few examples, there are lots and lots of ways that those types of diversity are interconnected with each other. So to me, the code to inclusion is taking into account cognitive, demographic and experiential diversity in a multidimensional approach. And this fits well because there’s a huge overlap in impactful actions that can increase inclusion for people of all identities and backgrounds, as well as for all brains. So both fit very well into a comprehensive inclusion strategy.
Francesca: Amazing. So, I work with a lot of high schoolers, and some university students and I’m curious about your opinion on this. To what extent are current high schools and universities taking cognitive diversity into account in order to improve student outcomes?
Falisha: So I think first, it is really important to acknowledge that practices can vary substantially between teachers and between professors. There are a lot of teachers and professors who in their classrooms and their student interactions take a lot of intentional action to build environments that are safe and productive for all students. And I think it’s important to acknowledge those teachers that really take that effort and prioritize cognitive inclusion, demographic inclusion, and all types of inclusion in their spaces. So one example that we’ve seen quite a bit recently in terms of inclusive practice in a university setting, in particular, is providing virtual participation options for classes that are lecture-based. So if students are just expected to listen and watch and not really engage or be interactive. There isn’t too much of a difference for a lot of people between coming in in person and watching a recording and by offering that virtual participation, that can really increase accessibility and flexibility and create a learning environment that is more comfortable and productive for a lot of students. Something else that I’ve seen coming up more recently is student-centred learning approaches in both universities and in high schools. And this often leads to more variety in teaching strategies in the classroom as well as in choice for students and how they build and practice their skills instead of you know, lecture after lecture, after lecture and the same thing the next day there’s some interaction, there’s discussions, there’s small groups, individual work, readings, labs, and any kind of variety and choice is great for cognitive diversity because different types of activities can bring out different strengths.
So that’s where I think things are really moving in a positive direction in terms of cognitive inclusion in schools. Along with this, there are also some common structures that don’t support cognitive diversity, and these tend to stem from traditional metrics of success that evaluate students based on a certain cookie-cutter expectation. And that cookie-cutter expectation was defined by a certain group of people. It’s biased based on certain brain types and thinking styles and based on certain cultures and approaches.
So one personal example that comes to mind from my own experience is my report cards in school would always say, “does not participate enough in class”. And as a student, that really bothered me because I did very well with the learned materials I got A’s in most of my classes, and I felt that I did participate. I actively listened when the teacher was talking, I did all of the assigned work, I put effort into my work, and I was helpful to peers and teachers with classroom tasks. And I contributed if we had a group project, what I didn’t do, was raise my hand to share answers or read aloud or do whatever else in front of the class. I had no motivation to do that, and I didn’t see the value in putting myself on the spot, I just wanted to move on to the next concept.
So the traditional model of participation means volunteering to call out in front of the class, and participating in that way is a measure of success. That’s an example of an approach that’s not cognitively inclusive and those restrictive metrics can show students what is valued by their teachers and by society more broadly. Like its calling out in front of the group really more valuable than helping a neighbour? And if what’s valued is not the trait that a student has, then that can really impact their progression through school, through their confidence, and even influence their career interests. Even when they have outstanding strengths that would be highlighted with other more inclusive metrics.
Francesca: Right. We only have a limited amount of time, I would love to talk about this for hours and hours. I just wanna pick your brain on this one particular topic. But thinking back to what you mentioned, how do you think this can be improved in your opinion, in your professional opinion?
Falisha: So there’s three main areas where some change would be really valuable. The first is in those metrics and definitions of success. So if we continue with the participation example, if someone is skipping an in-person class because they’d rather hang out in the hallway, then no, they’re not participating and the grade in that area would be affected. But if one student puts full effort into their work and then raises their hand to share an answer in front of the class, and a second student puts full effort into their work and then helps their neighbour clean up a mess, Is the first actually participating more or better than the second? I’d say no. So that participation metric can be revised to be inclusive of different participation styles. For example, having a metric that says the students put effort into their independent work and supports class collaboration. And what that supporting class collaboration looks like can be different across different students. Another example is it really necessary to assess students on whether they’ve memorized a multiplication table or might the actual necessary skill be demonstrating that they can multiply single digits. So one student might get to the answer by memorizing, which is fine while another draws out the numbers, which is also fine.
And if both those methods lead to correct answers, then both students should pass the criteria. So the second area of change that I would suggest is exploring different ways of teaching and learning that can help most students achieve that inclusively defined success. So if we continue with the multiplication example, a teacher can show all students different ways of doing multiplication so the students can try and see how it works for them. A teacher can share a multiplication table for those who wanna memorize, they can show an equation-style approach, like the long multiplication approach that’s so to the most commonly taught in North America. And they can also show stick multiplication that uses drawing of intersecting lines to do the calculation. And encourage all students to try all the methods and choose what they want to do on a project or test. And very importantly, this doesn’t take away from demonstrating the skill in any assessment. If someone gets the math answer wrong, they’re still marked wrong. But if they get it right, then they get full points regardless of whether they used memorization or drawing or equations.
The same goes for other subjects as well, like if an example metric is demonstrating reading comprehension and the ability to engage in critical discussion about a story. Do all students really need to read the same book out loud at the same pace as the rest of the class and then write an essay answering the same question? Or can a few options for books and questions be provided, along with options for independent, quiet reading in the library or reading aloud in small groups in the classroom? These actions can encourage students to explore how they best think, work, solve problems, and interact. And it shows them that there are different ways of doing things that can all be right and good and value. And this leads into the third area of change, which is integrating inclusion and acceptance in the curriculum. So when there’s options provided and all options are presented to be of equal value, that demonstrates to students that different ways of doing things is the norm. They can expect that their neighbour will choose another book and that their friend will do a math problem differently. Being open to perspectives and approaches that are different from one zone, as long as they themselves are respectful and inclusive. That becomes the standard, It’s what you would expect. And this area of change which is starting to happen in some locations, but is being, unfortunately, taken steps back in some areas. Also includes intentional teaching about different identities and associated histories and present situations. For example, even in elementary school age, students can learn about a broad range of holidays and cultural practices and can read books that feature successful and positive characters of diverse identities. And by high school and beyond, students can learn about history in their home country and beyond from multiple perspectives, particularly from marginalized perspectives, not just those that are covered in traditional textbooks. They can learn about bias and the encourage to reflect critically on bias at the individual and systemic levels and how that impacts our current society. So being taught the skill of critical thinking from an equity focus perspective at that high school age is something that students can apply throughout their education and career path.
Francesca: Taking a look at who you help. How does equity, diversity, and inclusion, benefits students?
Falisha: It’s important to note, especially from a brain development perspective, that experiences at school can have a lifelong impact on students. Because our brains and childhood and adolescents are developing and our experiences can have an impact on how our brain develops in terms of its actual structure and how it works, which can impact how our brain works in adulthood. These important experiences include those that are actually related to the learned material and the teaching that happens in the classroom, but also just as important as social interactions that happen in and out of the classroom. So equity means that everyone gets what they need in a classroom context that can be. Everyone getting what they need to meet an outcome, like learning a skill or passing a grade. And that’s importantly different from equality. Because equality means that everyone gets the same things, but that’s not always ideal because not everybody needs the same things. Equity in a classroom means that different people might use different supports or choose different project options, or take different approaches based on what they personally need and what works best for them. So the examples we discussed earlier, about the choice of books or learning multiple ways to do math, those feed into equity. Another example of equity could be having a need-based financial aid program to cover costs of fees for school sports or bands or lunches or textbooks, and providing accessible and adaptable equipment in gym class and science labs or other spaces. Equity benefits students because it removes barriers to success and it creates an equal level of support and access where everyone has what they need to fully learn and participate in the classroom and the broader school environment.
So moving into diversity, accepting and, even more than accepting, embracing diversity is crucial for social development and for an informed education that’s built on multiple perspectives there. There’s neuroscience research that shows how we identify differences in people is actually learned over time. So our brains are wired to identify differences in general like we have that code that says, I know how to identify differences. But it’s our learning that tells us where to direct that brain function. So what specific traits are considered different from ourselves or not? That’s why, for example, most adults would consider someone with a different skin tone from their own as more different from themselves than someone with a different hair colour, at least in North American society. That’s what the environment and society are telling us, is importantly different or not. But how our brains process difference, especially related to race, has been shown to be highly impacted by frequent and positive interactions with people different from ourselves in everyday life. So people who have more frequent and more positive interactions with people who are different from themselves show more inclusive brain activity. So when students are interacting in a classroom and in social spaces with peers and teachers who look differently from them, who share identities different from their own and who demonstrate different ways of learning and working and communicating, the students are processing shared experiences and positive connections with this diverse group that can build inclusive thoughts and behaviours over time. And this type of exposure is important not only within the school population but also within the material that’s thought. So teaching multiple perspectives and intentionally focusing on marginalized perspectives helps provide a comprehensive and critical view of the past and present. And sharing the work of authors and scientists and mathematicians and musicians of all identities can help students feel that the subjects they connect with are for everyone and that they can belong in that field. And that leads us to inclusion. An inclusive space is one where everyone feels safe, accepted for who they are, valued for what they bring and supported. And the brain gets really, really happy and inclusive spaces like positive social feedback activates the reward system, and it’s the same system after a very similar response if people are getting money.
Francesca: Seriously.
Falisha: Yeah, That have looked at those like in the same group.
Francesca: That’s so cool!
Falisha: Brain research is pretty awesome. And there’s other studies have shown that having a sense of social support decreases the stress response in the brain. But in contrast, if somebody is experiencing repeated exclusion, like bullying, that can increase stress response in the brain and that can increase anxiety and affect mental health and more. So when strategies are implemented to facilitate equity, value different ways of doing things, promote positive relationships across diverse groups of students and encourage supportive collaboration that’s helping keep students’ brains happy and ready to focus on learning at school.
Francesca: Awesome! Now, jumping ahead to the workplace, how does this all play into the workplace?
Falisha: So those same ideas that I just mentioned, they carry over into workplace environments as well. Just like we talked about with the school setting, equity removes barriers and creates an equal level of support and access for all team members. So some examples of equity that we can see in the workplace are providing a flexible schedule with remote or hybrid options, providing accessible and adaptable office furniture and equipment, and allowing team members to exchange statutory holidays for other days off that are more meaningful for them. So that might be different for different people, but everyone has an equal opportunity to be flexible and to customize. Equity is also crucial in recruitment and advancement, like taking into account and valuing career breaks and leaves, critically choosing performance metrics that are inclusive of diverse work styles and making sure that there is equal pay for equal work. And these equity-focused actions can reduce bias and facilitate equal opportunity in recruitment and in the workplace experience. They allow team members to customize their work environment as they need, and that can have major positive impacts on employee wellbeing as well as productivity because employees who are well, will do better work. Diversity in workplace teams has been shown to enhance quality of work, there’s tons of research on that. So when you have a team that is racially and gender diverse, includes people with and without disabilities, includes people from different cultures and religions, includes people with different brain types and personalities and ways of working and different family structures and more, that brings a range of different perspectives to the work. And when you have different perspectives, you get input from people with experiences and identities that represent the diverse population of clients, users or customers that the particular workplace serves. With a diverse group like that, you also get respectful debate that prompts critical thinking, and you get fusion of ideas into something innovative. But diversity on its own is not enough.
So diversity without equity and inclusion can actually have negative effects because some team members are treated unfairly, experienced discrimination, or do not have safety and support. So equity and inclusion are necessary for a diverse team to thrive because when a workplace is inclusive, team members feel safe to share honest opinions, suggest bold ideas, ask questions and ask for support. And it’s this safety that can positively impact the work because new ideas are shared and critical questions are asked that can help drive the project in better directions. It’s also really important for employee well-being if an employee is not experiencing inclusion. Then they often feel that they have to cover up certain aspects of their identity at work, or actively change their behaviour in certain spaces to fit in a biased, arbitrary expectation. And that can be really, really draining and add so much stress and contribute to burnout risk. So in order to maximize both work quality and team member safety and well-being, workplaces need equitable practices that promote fair treatment, meaningful integration of diverse perspectives and the creation of an inclusive and supportive space.
Francesca: All right, looking back to your research in your paper, it’s called Structural co-variance analysis reveals differences between dancers and untrained controls. So it states that dancers and musicians differ in brain structures from untrained individuals. So what does this potentially mean for students who are or maybe aren’t in dance?
Falisha: So this is a throwback for me. Before I started my work in inclusion, I was full-time in neuroscience research, and I did my Ph.D. in neuroscience. This was part of my project and this research focused on how the brains of dancers and musicians are different from people who don’t have the kinds of arts training. But my project fits within a broader body of research that shows that generally, training can impact the brain. So there are other studies that show that long-term practice of a broad range of different activities like sports and chess are also associated with brain differences. And the brain differences that we see depend on the skill, they’re really closely related to the skill that was practiced. So for example, dance and music training is associated with a brain area that sits just above the ear, and that’s involved in connecting sound and movement information so that’s something that dancers and musicians are practicing all the time. And it’s another example. Chess training is associated with a different set of brain areas, specifically those related to object representation, like knowing what and where things are, which is something that chess players really need to be able to do well. The first take from this body of research for students is that having hobbies, learning and practicing skills both in and out of school is good for your brain. Whether it’s joining a lunchtime, chess, or debate club, taking a music or dance or theatre class after school, or working in a restaurant or auto shop on the weekend. Those are all ways to get skill training that over time and with practice can impact the brain in areas that are associated with those skills. The second takeaway is that different types of hobbies and learning activities are appealing to different students. And that’s great, the world really needs people who bring different skill sets and strengths. And while it’s always great to try some different activities and see what best fits your interests.
There’s no need to force a certain activity if it’s really not resonating. There’s no one skill that’s so much better for your brain than everything else because many types of training and learning have related brain impacts. Find what you’re motivated to do and commit the time and practice to those things.
Francesca: Such great, I guess I’ll call it advice or maybe findings. But I know far too many, or I know of any parents anyway who they wanna keep their kids in piano or something they don’t really enjoy or something like that because they might feel that it’s good for the brain but I think it’s important what you said about finding something that does resonate with that person, with that child, and really seeing where that takes them. Thank you so much for sharing that. And last but not the least, if you wouldn’t mind, please tell us about how you help students and professionals. Feel free to share with us how we can connect with you if we wanna learn more about what you do and all those great things.
Falisha: I work as an independent inclusion consultant for organizations and professionals. I often work with schools, research organizations and companies. My services include assessments like surveys, informed by my extensive research background that we look at workplace climate or classroom climate, I do action plan development and implementation support, as well as training like workshops or individual coaching on topics at the intersection of inclusion in neuroscience, like cognitive diversity, the neuroscience of bias, and our brains and belonging. If you’d like to learn more, get in touch. You can check out my website, falishakarpati.com or connect on LinkedIn.
Francesca: All right. Thank you so much for joining us today, Falisha. It was an absolute pleasure getting to speak with you, and I know that everyone here, everyone listening, has learned so much and their brains are loving what we’re hearing.
Falisha: Thank you so much for having me!
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